Comments on: Complex or Complicated? http://alex.kavanagh.name/2009/11/complex-or-complicated/ Random thoughts, differential progress ... Tue, 31 Aug 2010 14:45:41 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: alex http://alex.kavanagh.name/2009/11/complex-or-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-153 alex Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:28:00 +0000 http://alex.kavanagh.name/?p=81#comment-153 The family tree example you give is only complicated. i.e. even though there are 10 generations creating a complicated family tree it will still be possible to examine each and every family member's relationship and understand it and its context within the family tree. There is no emergent behaviour from the family tree, to in that sense it is similar to the 747 example; very complicated, but not complex. However, in the same family there might be 3 or 4 generations still living. Whilst the structure of the family tree is complicated, the behaviour of the members of the family would almost certainly be complex. i.e. the behaviour of the members of the family as a system emerges as a consequence of their interactions. Looking at any single member and their direct relationships or even individual behaviour would not provide sufficient information or analysis to understand the behaviour of the family system as a whole. To study the whole family you have to study it at a system level and not at an individual member level. In this case, it is even more complex because no single member can have a full perspective and understanding of the family system as a whole. Each brings their own experience, prejudices, partial perspectives and motivations to the mix resulting in behaviours that only emerge due to the interactions between the family members. The family tree example you give is only complicated. i.e. even though there are 10 generations creating a complicated family tree it will still be possible to examine each and every family member’s relationship and understand it and its context within the family tree. There is no emergent behaviour from the family tree, to in that sense it is similar to the 747 example; very complicated, but not complex.

However, in the same family there might be 3 or 4 generations still living. Whilst the structure of the family tree is complicated, the behaviour of the members of the family would almost certainly be complex. i.e. the behaviour of the members of the family as a system emerges as a consequence of their interactions.

Looking at any single member and their direct relationships or even individual behaviour would not provide sufficient information or analysis to understand the behaviour of the family system as a whole. To study the whole family you have to study it at a system level and not at an individual member level. In this case, it is even more complex because no single member can have a full perspective and understanding of the family system as a whole. Each brings their own experience, prejudices, partial perspectives and motivations to the mix resulting in behaviours that only emerge due to the interactions between the family members.

]]> By: david coxon http://alex.kavanagh.name/2009/11/complex-or-complicated/comment-page-1/#comment-152 david coxon Thu, 05 Nov 2009 09:37:35 +0000 http://alex.kavanagh.name/?p=81#comment-152 Unfortunately i missed the codeworks think and a drink session. Your post is a really interesting one and your argued your case very well. I was recently considering writing something on 'what is clever' which required very similar discussion. Both complex and complicated come form the same word stem which generally means many different connected parts, however as i understand it complicate means make more complex therefore complicated simply means something which has many different interconnected parts which has bean made more so. Complex generally refers to physical atributes (including behaviour) but complicated can refer to both physical and imaginary, so a situation can be made more complex by rumours or beliefs. An example would be you can have complex relationships, ie lots of family members taken back 10 gererations can create a very complex family tree, but a complicated relationship, could involve a complex family structure made more complicated by extra parital relationship and family fued that prevent one side of a family talking to another (something that your previous example doesn't factor into its explanation and that could not be found by examining the parts) back over to you.... oh my explanation comes in part from the consise oxford english dictionary, couldn't quite but my finger on the difference without looking both words up. Unfortunately i missed the codeworks think and a drink session. Your post is a really interesting one and your argued your case very well. I was recently considering writing something on ‘what is clever’ which required very similar discussion.

Both complex and complicated come form the same word stem which generally means many different connected parts, however as i understand it complicate means make more complex therefore complicated simply means something which has many different interconnected parts which has bean made more so.

Complex generally refers to physical atributes (including behaviour) but complicated can refer to both physical and imaginary, so a situation can be made more complex by rumours or beliefs.

An example would be you can have complex relationships, ie lots of family members taken back 10 gererations can create a very complex family tree, but a complicated relationship, could involve a complex family structure made more complicated by extra parital relationship and family fued that prevent one side of a family talking to another (something that your previous example doesn’t factor into its explanation and that could not be found by examining the parts)

back over to you….
oh my explanation comes in part from the consise oxford english dictionary, couldn’t quite but my finger on the difference without looking both words up.

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